Source: ChildrensHealthDefense.org

 

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Transcript:

Breaking News: Hospital Records In Texas Measles Death Released To CHD

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The opinions expressed by the host and guests in this show are not necessarily the views of

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Children’s Health defense

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foreign.

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It’s March 19, 2025. We have some breaking news for you. I’m going to bring on Brian Hooker, our

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Chief Scientific Officer, Dr. Pierre Corey and Dr. Ben Edwards. Good morning everybody and thank you

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for being here. To our viewers, this Children’s Health Defence has been given permission to look at

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the medical records of the six year old girl that died with measles. And they are now going to be

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sharing with you as the family have asked specifically to share and report, to warn other parents

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and other people about some of the things that have been going on. So handing straight over to you,

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Brian. Thank you, Polly. Well, we know that the little girl that passed away, she actually was

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recovering from the measles. Her measles rash was fading. She had seen a pediatrician beforehand who

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gave her cough syrup and recommended Tylenol. But because she was having after the measles rash was

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fading, she was having problems with a cough and with breathing. Then the parents took her into the

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er. They took her into the ER on a Saturday night and saw a resident there who gave the little girl

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antibiotics. About two and a half days later, she was not progressing. She was getting worse and she

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ended up in ICU. And then about 36 hours later, then she died. So just that sort of the threadbare

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portion of the case. We want to bring on Dr. Pierre Kory. Dr. Cory is an expert in emergent care as

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well as pulmonology. Dr. Corey, you’ve had a chance to look at the medical records. What’s your

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assessment? Yeah, I’ve done medical case reviews for malpractice lawyers for a good part of my

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career. And this case was tragic and really had nothing, I shouldn’t say nothing to do with measles.

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But she did not die of measles by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, she died of a pneumonia.

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But it gets worse than that because she didn’t really die of the pneumonia. She died of a medical

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error. And that error was a completely inappropriate antibiotic. It was an insufficient antibiotic.

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And in reviewing cases, I’ve reviewed cases of pneumonias that went unrecognized or mistreated. And

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normally when you review a case, it’s difficult to pinpoint blame unless you know exactly what the

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organism was. And in this case, we did know what the organism was. She died of mycoplasma. And the

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tragedy is that mycoplasma is an extremely common what we call community acquired organism. This is

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very commonly circulating in the community. It causes pneumonias. And when you admit someone to the

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hospital for pneumonia, what you need to do is you treat what’s called empirically, meaning you put

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them on antibiotics that you think will cover the most common organism. And that’s why this case is

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absolutely enraging. It’s infuriating because she died because she got an inappropriate antibiotic.

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The most common antibiotics that we use, it’s in every guideline. Infectious disease, pulmonary.

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Every guideline in the country tells you that for a hospitalized child or adult who gets admitted to

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the hospital, you put them on two antibiotics. One is from a category called beta lactams, which is

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like penicillin, cephalosporins. And they got that part correct. They put her on something called

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ceftriaxone, which was excellent. But you always need to pair it with an antibiotic from a different

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category, which is called a macrolide or a quinolone. And they did neither of those things. They

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didn’t put her on the most common, which is azithromycin. The tragedy is that mycoplasma is an

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organism that doesn’t have a cell wall. Penicillins and cephalosporins work by disrupting the

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organism cell wall. But if you don’t have a cell wall, you need a different mechanistic antibiotic,

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which is azithromycin, which interrupts the protein synthesis and messes with the formation of

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proteins in the ribosome. But I don’t want to get too geeky with that. I mean, this is like medicine

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101. You put them on two antibiotics to cover all the possibilities. And unfortunately, this case

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gets a lot worse than that because not only did they use an inappropriate antibiotic, so they used

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ceftriaxone, which was correct. They added something called vancomycin to it, which works similarly.

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And it covers very drug resistant organisms like mrsa. There’s no reason to think that this child

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would come in with MRSA from the community, from a Mennonite community. She’s not coming from a

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facility where a lot of antibiotics are used. So it was a really. It’s a grievous error, and it’s an

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error which led to her death. And so when I say it gets worse, she’s in the hospital deteriorating.

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One of the fundamental teaching points that I’ve made throughout my career to my residents, to my

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fellows, to my students, is I always tell them, if what you’re doing is not working, change what

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you’re doing. Although this child was declining, they never changed what they were doing until the

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test came back from mycoplasma.

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This is where it gets really troubling because as an ICU doctor, when I need a new antibiotic, I

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uncover identify an organism in someone who’s critically ill when I order that antibiotic. That

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antibiotic has standards, it should arrive within at least two hours. And from my review of the

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records, the Antibiotic was ordered 11pm, approximately 11pm and as far as I can tell, it was not

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administered until 9am the next morning. It was actually written to start the next day. And so not

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only did you have several days delay of decline without the appropriate antibiotic, but then when

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they realized that they were missing the appropriate antibiotic, it took them, as far as I can tell,

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10 hours to administer, administer it. And by that time she was already on a ventilator. And

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approximately 24 hours later, actually less than 24 hours later, she died. And she died rather

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catastrophically. As she was declining, she was in a state of what’s called shock and she needed

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medicines to maintain her blood pressure. And suddenly her blood pressures crashed and she arrested.

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And that kind of suddenness in an infection suggest some other cardiac event. And in a child like

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that, with that amount of inflammation, infection and disturbances in the bloodstream, I can only

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surmise that she died of a catastrophic pulmonary embolism. But by the time that happened, there’s

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not a lot you can do. There’s some stuff you can do, you can use clot busting medications. And I’ve

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done that in the middle of cardiac arrest before and I’ve had a couple of rescues, but it’s not a

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high probability that you do that. But rather than focusing on that final event that caused her

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death, it really was all of the missteps that occurred. And so this, like you said, Brian, she was

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recovering from measles, getting a secondary bacterial pneumonia. Let me give the hospital some

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credit. They correctly diagnosed her, they very quickly on admission realized that she was coming in

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with a secondary bacterial pneumonia. And I think that was an absolutely correct diagnosis. The

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treatment was absolutely incorrect. And this, when I say it has little to do with measles. Secondary

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bacterial pneumonias can happen after any viral infection. And so this is not everyone’s grand

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stranding. And all this outrage over this measles. You see, the media is going nuts about how

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everyone needs to get vaccinated. I would tell you just simple, straightforward, correct medical

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care. We’ve been treating pneumonias for decades with antibiotics. And this was Just a tragic error

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of an insufficient and incorrect antibiotic regimen on admission. Okay, so just breaking this down.

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She enters the hospital at the emergency room with community acquired pneumonia. She gets basically

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ceftriaxone and vancomycin, both that attack the cell wall on a bacteria that we find out later that

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does not have a cell wall. So there’s nothing to attack when they now and standard of care would

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have been to give ceftriaxone and azithromycin. Right. That was the first major error, correct?

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Okay, absolutely correct. And then as she was getting progressively worse and they finally got the

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lab order back that it was a mycoplasma that does not have a cell wall, they delayed it 10 hours

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before she actually got azithromycin. And that’s correct, too. That’s correct. And I should add one

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more feature of that. So the records show that she arrived around. Actually, it was in the middle of

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the night. It was a little after noon. Right on. I think it was the 22nd correct. And the mycoplasma

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came back in the middle of the night on the 24th. So you have like, over 48 hours before that test

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was positive, and then the antibiotic is administered the next day. So you almost have three full

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days of a declining. Seriously declining medical status with no real changes being done into her

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treatment plan. And I would have said, even without the mycoplasma, anyone reviewing that case, if

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I’m taking care of someone and I’m rounding on them every day, and I see that today they’re doing a

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little bit worse than yesterday, and then the next day they’re doing a little bit worse than the day

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before. I’m going to review exactly what I’m doing and say, what am I missing? What am I missing?

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What else can I do? And that didn’t happen until a test showed up on a computer. And that’s just not

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doctoring. No, no, it doesn’t look like doctoring at all. And, you know, and she passed away because

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of medical error, because of the first error, the wrong antibiotic, and then the second error,

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delaying the antibiotic by 10 hours in ICU where every second counts. Dr. Ben, you had a chance to

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talk directly with the family. You’ve talked to the parents of this little girl who passed away.

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What was that like? And. And you’re also the treating physician for their other children, correct?

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Yes. So, Peter, the father, specifically asked me about making this public, and what should he do?

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And his. He has a concern for other children. So excuse Me, his motivation is the love of his kids,

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other kids. He knows other kids are in the hospital right now. So that’s. His motivation is pure. I

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know this is a very potentially inflammatory subject. It’s a tragic error. I do want to say as I

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look through the medical records, there was some outstanding care given all along the way. And as

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Dr. Corey’s pointed out, unfortunately, this was a big mistake, a tragic mistake, and I agree, a

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fatal mistake. But Peter is goal is not to inflame the situation or cause more division and more

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just hot rhetoric. And in fact, I was being interviewed the day his daughter died. I was in the

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middle of an interview and I remember that reporter grabbing his phone and the alert just came from

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the news alert just announced first measles death. There was almost a giddiness in, in his response.

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It was disgusting actually. And, and I want people to know Peter doesn’t want this information to be

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used on the other side in the same almost giddiness kind of way of aha, we gotcha. He simply wants

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the truth to be told so that other kids who potentially could go down the same path as his daughter

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won’t have to. He has a pure, loving heart and a motivation that’s pure. And he wanted me to share

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that and express that. And he wanted this to be public for that very reason, not to inflame the

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situation, not to give one side more ammunition. He’s not like that. That community is not like

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that. They love their neighbor. And he told me that, he said, I love my neighbor and my neighbor’s

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my enemy. My neighbor’s the one who hurt me. My neighbor’s the one who offends me. I’m going to love

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them. And his motivation, pure in this. So I just want to say that and get that message out so that

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we can maybe come to the table on this. There’s potential risk of measles, you know, complications

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and death. There’s potential risk, complications and death from mmr. We need to have that

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conversation out at the table, both sides, in a truthful, honest manner for the sake of these

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children. That’s what he wants. That’s what that community wants. You know, I, I’ve asked a lot of

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these parents, were you vaccinated for measles? Yes, I was. That generation, many of them were and

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the kids aren’t. And I ask them why. 12 vaccine injured in that community. We can’t ignore that

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anymore. We have got to come to the table and have this conversation. And that’s his heart, that’s

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my Heart. I’m not, you know, I think I’ll leave it there. Right now, Peter just wants all the

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children to have the best care they can. And for my colleagues, I would just say use every tool in

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the toolbox to treat that patient that’s in front of you today. Right. And you talking to the

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parents, you are their treating physician. How are the other children doing? They’re doing very

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well. Doing very well and have recovered essentially from the measles. I know that measles is still

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going through the community, but it sounds like their. Their children have recovered. Is that

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correct? Correct. And we are seeing post measles pneumonias. I’ve seen some other pneumonia. So I’d

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like my colleagues in the community to understand that and know that. Something to be watching for

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and covering for with a macrolite antibiotic. Right, Right. And, Pierre, going back to you really

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quick. So this would be textbook 101, if somebody was entering with, and you explained it

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beautifully, pneumonia that they were acquired from the community, not from a hospital facility, but

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from the community. So this would just be sort of basic antibiotics 101. This is how you treat an

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un. You know, yet unidentified community acquired pneumonia. Yes. And, you know, that’s what it

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requires. Because when a. When a child or an adult, anyone admits, presents to you with a pneumonia,

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it’s impossible to know immediately what organism it is. So you have to, you know, we say

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empirically treat. You could use the term guess. You have to guess what organism could be infecting

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this child. And so when you make that guess, you put them on. But I will tell you the guidelines.

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We’ve studied the organisms that circulate in communities, the most common ones that people come in

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with when they’re sick. And that’s why if you look up any textbook, any guide, any recommendation

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from the professional societies that they’re all the same, they basically recommend this kind of

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broad coverage, and then you narrow it down as you understand the. As you identify the organism. And

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the other part of this is that azithromycin penetrates really well into the lung tissue, and it’s

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very effective against mycoplasma. And just knowing that, it’s disturbing when I review the chart,

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because I’m seeing that she’s missing a really critical antibiotic that would have turned her

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around. I believe that with high confidence. This was an otherwise healthy child, as I understand,

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who came in with a common pneumonia. And a routine, appropriate antibiotic would have, I believe,

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changed that trajectory from what it unfortunately and tragically became. Thank you. And could this

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mistake be made again? I’m sorry. Go ahead, Polly. No, I was just going to close the show, but fine,

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carry on. Okay. Could this mistake actually be made again? Yes. I mean, inappropriate antibiotics,

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sometimes they’re too narrow, and this one actually was, in a way, too broad, but it missed a

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certain segment of organisms. Vancomycin covers a lot of different organisms, especially drug

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resistant ones, but it was inappropriate because it doesn’t treat mycoplasma. And so these kind of

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mistakes can be made for sure. But I think Dr. Edwards said it really well. I think we’re not here

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to inflame, but we’re just here to be accurate, deliver the facts. And really, when a medical error

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happens, the entire medical system and community should use those errors to learn from, to do better

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the next time. That’s why we do quality case reviews. And that’s why when these errors come out, it

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really should be a teaching point and a lesson to all those who treat pneumonias in the community so

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that this doesn’t happen again. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Can I just say one thing quickly, Dr.

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Edwards? The mainstream media saying that this child would be alive if she had the MMR playing on

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the vaccinated. Vaccinated. You have seen people that took the MMR and got measles down there. I saw

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them myself when I was with you. Yes, I have. And that’s not to say that it won’t decrease, you

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know, the chances or. But the real question, I believe, is risk, benefit. I haven’t heard that

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conversation. The admission that there is risk. We need to really get an accurate understanding of

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vaccine adverse events. We need to clean up bears. I believe we need to be able to give true,

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informed consent by having an accurate understanding of what are the risks of mmr. And that’s a

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conversation this country needs to have. And the parents in the interview saying categorically they

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would absolutely still not recommend the MMR and would not give it to their children. They would

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take measles.

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Okay, thank you, Dr. Ben Edwards. Thank you, Dr. Pierre Cory and Brian Hooker for coming on this

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morning with this breaking news. And if there’s any more, you will update the public. Absolutely.

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Thank you.